Momonari

[Luc Taelman]

At this moment , we have some interesting discussions in the members section.
One of them is about momonari kabuto.

[Peter Jones]

I have always been fascinated with the European connection associated with momonari Kabuto.
But I have a problem with the idea the momonari evolved from the cabasset.
The early type of momonari, like the one Luc posted above doesn't really look like a cabasset but I think it does look like the oriental depiction of a peach, hence it's name.
I would of thought if there is a European connection with the background of the momonari the Japanese would mention this in the name?
I wonder when this connection was first mentioned and does anyone know of a momonari that pre-dates the arrival of Europeans in Asia?

Peter

[John Wee Tom]

I would of thought if there is a European connection with the background of the momonari the Japanese would mention this in the name?
I wonder when this connection was first mentioned and does anyone know of a momonari that pre-dates the arrival of Europeans in Asia?

Peter

Good question!

[Jo Anseeuw]

I will try to get an answer during the next society meeting in Tokyo. I will ask to make pictures again that I can share in the member section...

Jo

[John Wee Tom]

I will try to get an answer during the next society meeting in Tokyo. I will ask to make pictures again that I can share in the member section...

Jo

That would be great, Jo!

[Eric Tulin]

I have always been fascinated with the European connection associated with momonari Kabuto.
But I have a problem with the idea the momonari evolved from the cabasset.
The early type of momonari, like the one Luc posted above doesn't really look like a cabasset but I think it does look like the oriental depiction of a peach, hence it's name.
I would of thought if there is a European connection with the background of the momonari the Japanese would mention this in the name?
I wonder when this connection was first mentioned and does anyone know of a momonari that pre-dates the arrival of Europeans in Asia?

Peter

Peter, you bring up an interesting question "does anyone know of a momonari that pre-dates the arrival of Europeans in Asia".....this may be a question that can be answered by Japanese enthusiasts / authorities on the subject but unfortunately the flow of information is currently strictly one way. I know of several other similar questions that may only be answered in Japan as well. The cross cultural exchange of information that is sorely needed has not happened yet. Without the ability of western enthusiasts being able to directly question Japanese enthusiasts we may never get answers to some questions, also any of our ideas, thoughts, findings etc. on the subject of Japanese armor will not get heard by the Japanese, very unfortunate situation which may be impeding our knowledge of the subject.

[John Wee Tom]

I have always been fascinated with the European connection associated with momonari Kabuto.
But I have a problem with the idea the momonari evolved from the cabasset.
The early type of momonari, like the one Luc posted above doesn't really look like a cabasset but I think it does look like the oriental depiction of a peach, hence it's name.
I would of thought if there is a European connection with the background of the momonari the Japanese would mention this in the name?
I wonder when this connection was first mentioned and does anyone know of a momonari that pre-dates the arrival of Europeans in Asia?

Peter

Peter, you bring up an interesting question "does anyone know of a momonari that pre-dates the arrival of Europeans in Asia".....this may be a question that can be answered by Japanese enthusiasts / authorities on the subject but unfortunately the flow of information is currently strictly one way. I know of several other similar questions that may only be answered in Japan as well. The cross cultural exchange of information that is sorely needed has not happened yet. Without the ability of western enthusiasts being able to directly question Japanese enthusiasts we may never get answers to some questions, also any of our ideas, thoughts, findings etc. on the subject of Japanese armor will not get heard by the Japanese, very unfortunate situation which may be impeding our knowledge of the subject.

Eric,

This is precisely the mandate of the Japanese Armor Society - to encourage and tap into the knowledge base that obviously exists in Japan and to foster exchange of this knowledge and ideas with some of the studies and expertise that have been developed in the West.

Hopefully the information will start to flow now that the forum is open...

Please also read "About this Forum" for important information on how the forum operates.

[Eric Tulin]

Eric,

This is precisely the mandate of the Japanese Armor Society - to encourage and tap into the knowledge base that obviously exists in Japan and to foster exchange of this knowledge and ideas with some of the studies and expertise that have been developed in the West.

Hopefully the information will start to flow now that the forum is open...

Please also read "About this Forum" for important information on how the forum operates.

John thanks, I did read the added info on the "members" section...according to Jo, I should be receiving an invoice from the NKBKHK for membership.....eventually.

[Peter Jones]

Thank you Jo.
I wonder how old the idea of a european origin for the momonari actually is? Are the Japanese even aware of it?

Is it possible the whole concept was invented during the late 19th when there was a craze here for all things Japanese and at the same time a revival for european armour and an idea was just accepted as fact?

I would be very interested to know what the current thinking is in Japan on the subject.



Peter

[Giuseppe Piva]

Peter, actually I think it is quite well known that momonari kabuto derive directly from Portoguese helmets. Together with firearms, Europeans exported in fact also the best armor design to contrast bullets, which is to have them bounced and deviated rather than stopped with a plane surface.